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Forums : Feature Discussion > Roster Management
Elizium (New Admin) 5/20/2005 3:23 PM EST : Roster Management
Elizium
Posts: 876
Zomgawsh Poster

Ugh, this is such a nightmare. I wish I could snap my fingers and make everyone in the guild update their own roster info, but that's not reality.

Aaron, is there any chance we'll ever have the ability, as admins, to update the roster info ourselves?

Creating an administratable roster with exports from in-game and such is just a headache beyond belief. I personally love the roster you've got set up, I just wish I had access to it. It's one of the most important pieces of info on my site and it's the only one I have no control over.
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Daeaorn (New Admin) 5/21/2005 8:47 AM EST : RE: Roster Management

Daeaorn
Posts: 2150
Zomgawsh Poster

im not sure what game you play but you might want to see if you game has a roster file some where. EverQuest lets us dump our guild rosters and Aaron has created a content for it and it beats haveing everyone register there chars them selfs.
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Aranita (New Admin) 5/21/2005 10:42 AM EST : RE: Roster Management
Aranita
Posts: 1060
Zomgawsh Poster

I play CoH myself, which does not have a direct roster feed..but I actually prefer that.  As for admin rights to update it myself.. LOL..omg, I'd never get anything else done.

1. I run 2 SG's as 1 Guild and am not sure a direct feed would allow for both to share space.  If it did, great As long as I could still manually keep alumni and add friends-of-Angels.
2. I enjoy the challenge of building site membership as well as in-game membership.  It shows me who is really dedicated, who the RP people are (1 chapter caters to the hard core gamers and the other to the fun loving RP set), and who has pride in their up and running alts. 
3. It allows my alumni who have entered themselves in the roster to remain.  I have members who have moved on due to seasonal changes such as school or have been stationed overseas without access while en route or in a remote location.  They are happy to have a home to return to on the website and a direct feed roster may not allow that.  Because of the site, I get a better return rate in-game for these members.
4.  We have a small group of non-Guild friends join as site members and are given an opportunity to showcase their bios, journals, stats, etc.

By the way: hey, I'm new *waves*.  Started my site in March? of this year.  Great resource.  Met a few other admins and really love what this does for my guild.  Thank you all.
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Tubzinsac (Guild Admin) 5/21/2005 8:07 PM EST : RE: Roster Management

Tubzinsac
Posts: 781
Zomgawsh Poster

I believe this topic has been brought up before and I have expressed my views there to paraphrase... I don't like the idea of admins having access to players data.

After that is said welcome to the Guild Portal Admin Community Aranita, I always enjoying seeing new Guild Leader/web site admins come to guild portal. It always reminds me of how awed I was when I first came here. I have spent far less time creating and maintaining a website now that it is hosted here and the quality of the site is even better than what I used to have.
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Elizium (New Admin) 5/22/2005 1:52 PM EST : RE: Roster Management
Elizium
Posts: 876
Zomgawsh Poster

Ah well, I can understand how access to the level listed in the roster would be considered "sensitive" data, afterall, imagine what I could do if I knew the actual level of your avatar in a game. It would be like having access to your bank account, practically.

It's sad because what the lack of admin control over the roster does, for me, is essentially render all of Guildportal's wonderful work on the roster useless. Other than kicking people out of the guild for not updating their roster, I have NO recourse to keep that section of my website up to date. I'm forced to either go to an outside source for a roster, or just let part of my site lay waste because I have no administrative control over it.

But, if that's what the majority agreed on, I can't do anything but go along with the flow. Just not sure why you'd want to push your customers to find a solution outside of what you offer. If they get enough HTML/CSS under their belt, where's the need for Guildportal go?

--------------------------------
Oh, and I play WoW. We don't have a nice roster dump with an Aaron setup for it like EQ2. I can export my roster, but in a limited way, and then I have to spend time reformatting it to something that's acceptable and matches my guildportal site. I wouldn't call it "convenient" in any way, shape, or form.
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Tubzinsac (Guild Admin) 5/22/2005 8:49 PM EST : RE: Roster Management

Tubzinsac
Posts: 781
Zomgawsh Poster

Elizium said:
Ah well, I can understand how access to the level listed in the roster would be considered "sensitive" data, afterall, imagine what I could do if I knew the actual level of your avatar in a game. It would be like having access to your bank account, practically...


Regardless of how sensitive the data is it still is the itellectual property of the players... Not yours. You seem to forget that though Guild Portal was created to serve guild admins in doing so it also serves the players that come to your website. The Roster that guild Portal provides pulls information directly from the character profiles of your players not some information saved on your website. When a player changes something on their character profile it is immediatly visible on your roster. So by giving admins the right to edit the existing roster they are giving you access to information that does not belong to you. Regardless of how sensitive the data is it is still not right in my opinion.

It's sad because what the lack of admin control over the roster does, for me, is essentially render all of Guildportal's wonderful work on the roster useless...


Your statement there is correct except it should read, "It's sad because what the lack of admin control over the roster does for me is essentially render all of Guildportal's wonderful work on the roster useless..."
Though I still wouldn't say it is useless. I visited your website it is a nice looking informative piece of work. Far from useless, but I have began to understand your frame of mind.

Just not sure why you'd want to push your customers to find a solution outside of what you offer. If they get enough HTML/CSS under their belt, where's the need for Guildportal go?


Ok, now that statement was made as a cheap jab to provoke your desires to be fullfilled. Let me tell you that EVERYTHING I do here on Guild Portal I can do without Guild Portal. The need for Guild Portal is the fact that they provide a fast and effective template on which I can effeciently get my website up running looking sharp and get back in the game. Regardless of someones ability to comprehend HTML. Why do you think Aaron provides links to places that help GP users learn more HTML, JAVA, ect? Because he is confident that a good programmer can still see the huge advantages using GP has for them.

Oh, and I play WoW. We don't have a nice roster dump with an Aaron setup for it like EQ2. I can export my roster, but in a limited way, and then I have to spend time reformatting it to something that's acceptable and matches my guildportal site. I wouldn't call it "convenient" in any way, shape, or form.


Convenient is yet another word dependant upon your perspective. Not having to update all the information for all the members of your guild could be called convienent. I do have to say though all the time that would be spent updating your players information everyday making sure each characters level is correct and their flags are correct and their abilities correct honorable kills ect ect... You could write the code for a roster that does everything Aaron's does.

Now I planned on returning tonight to express to this audience that I have no place here and that if other admins want to delve into the players information let them I will just refrain from doing so. But when I read your emotional post that basically turned threatening towards an organization I feel is providing the best existing Guild Administrative tools on the internet, I felt I needed to reaffirm my stance as to why I am against editing the existing roster. If you want to be an overlord over your website then ask Aaron to write you a code for a new editable roster that imports the fields from the existing roster and will allow you to edit the information with out accessing the players character profiles.

The point is you seem to have forgotten that Guild Portal has a responsibilty to more than you. They serve the players as well as you. Yes you made the statement that you will go along with the flow but immediatly following that statement you suggested by not allowing you the access you want the need for Guild Portal would diminish.

Elizium you remind me of my father, and I could see him in your shoes, skin crawling because there was something that existed that was beyond his control. The truth of the matter is that there are many things that could be done to gain control over the information you wish to harness. Yet you were asking to have control over the information that was not your own that is why I had a problem with it; no other reason. But as I said it makes no difference to me if access is granted I will obstain from the (ab)use of such power.
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Elizium (New Admin) 5/23/2005 2:27 AM EST : RE: Roster Management
Elizium
Posts: 876
Zomgawsh Poster

- For the most part, you're right, I overreacted. It was late, I was tired, and I was frustrated after dealing with roster issues. I apologize if my tone came across as threatening.

- I have to disagree with you slightly. As far as I am concerned, NONE of the information on the site belongs to my members. Last time I checked, I was the one who paid for this website. Not a single one of them. If I stop paying the bills, and if I take down the site, guess what? The info is gone. So I do have control of their data in a sense, just not the level of control that I would prefer.

- My comment about how the more html/css a guildportal webmaster learns the less they need guildportal was not a threat in any way. It was more of a question...my attempting to understand GP's standpoint, that's all. I still think it's a legit question. If I take my roster offsite, and then some other piece, and another... you get my point, right?

- Don't misunderstand me, I LOVE guildportal. Since joining here I've sent directly two more paying customers to GP, and indirectly a few more. I sing it's praises to anyone who will listen. I'm not here to flame or slam GP in anyway. Just trying to understand. Sorry to have come across as aggressive, I'm just frustrated cause I have a guild full of lazy fools who won't update.
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Tubzinsac (Guild Admin) 5/23/2005 3:53 AM EST : RE: Roster Management

Tubzinsac
Posts: 781
Zomgawsh Poster

Elizium said:
- I have to disagree with you slightly. As far as I am concerned, NONE of the information on the site belongs to my members. Last time I checked, I was the one who paid for this website.


I am not saying the information on the website belongs to the players I am saying that the information in the Character Profiles belongs to them and that by editing the existing roster you are accessing their Character Profiles. That is why I realized what you were asking for and suggested that you request instead a content type roster that purhapes only you would have access to. One that stored the information on the website instead of pulling the information from the character profiles of your players. This would allow Aaron to have the information on that roster importable to other content types and give it that guildportal custimablity (is that a word?) Because if you stopped paying for the site and deleted it their character profiles would still exist and still be theirs.


- My comment about how the more html/css a guildportal webmaster learns the less they need guildportal was not a threat in any way. It was more of a question...my attempting to understand GP's standpoint, that's all. I still think it's a legit question. If I take my roster offsite, and then some other piece, and another... you get my point, right?


Yes I understand your point yet I still think it was still a little over reactive. You are only saying that the roster is not usefull to you right now. There are guild leaders who are importing forums, rosters, raid stat calanders all sorts of stuff they would be better suited to answer that question.

I'm just frustrated cause I have a guild full of lazy fools who won't update.


I understand your frustration and I don't blame you for it. I did not mean to word my last post as I did (the overlord part). But I maintain my stance that character profile information belongs to characters. I do think there is another way around it though. And whatever Aaron decides to do I respect his decision. I just may or may not take part in it. If your players don't mind the intrusion then they will apprieciate you for doing their work.
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Elizium (New Admin) 5/23/2005 1:56 PM EST : RE: Roster Management
Elizium
Posts: 876
Zomgawsh Poster

Hey whatever Aaron decides, I'll respect his decision too. At this point, I'll just drop this conversation, since it's clearly gotten far from the point.

I'm working with a new Addon for WoW I found, I'm hoping that this one proves a little easier to work with. The real downside to moving away from the GP roster is that I can then not take advantage of the crafting skills info either.

I'm determined to find a solution, though. All it takes is a little elbow grease. I bought a couple HTML & CSS books today, we'll see how quick of a learner I am.
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Tubzinsac (Guild Admin) 5/23/2005 8:50 PM EST : RE: Roster Management

Tubzinsac
Posts: 781
Zomgawsh Poster

Elizium I am sorry if I sounded as though I am making a personal attack on you because of your request. I did not intend for it to be so. I also don't want to be the cause of you dropping this request. I merely wished to direct it in another direction; to open another way perhapes. And as I thought about this in bed the other night (well day for me) I realized it wouldn't make a difference. If members are in your guild and they don't like you editing their character information then they will make that known. I have no reason to stand here on their behalf. But then I also thought that if your guild is like mine you have members who refused to even sign up at the website... sooo just being given the ability to edit the existing roster may still not solve your problem (though if that still is the solution your looking for I encourage you to pursue it.).

Anyway all things said as I was laying there I realized I could not figure out an option that would be better than just letting admins edit roster data as is and if members don't like it they can voice their opinion by pulling their character off the website entirely though not sure what members would not prefer to have you do all the work as well. One thing I forgot to mention in my previous posts was I have been to your site and it looks great. If your willing to update your players info I say give you the access. Perhapes one thinks clearer right before one falls asleep but that is what I have decided upon. I withdraw my opposition to this feature and encourage you to continue the pursuit of its implementation (sp?).
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